Sydney Sweeney’s Controversial “My Jeans (Genes)” Commercial

Our strategy gurus never shy away from controversy. In this episode, Mark and Lorraine dive into 2025’s biggest advertising controversy – the Sydney Sweeney American Eagle Jeans/Genes campaign! See how the positioning duo impartially shares their thoughts on the campaign and why the stock soared, the jeans flew off the shelf, and how American Eagle may once again be relevant to a new generation.

Join Mark and Lorraine for 30-ish as they discuss all things marketing, advertising, and of course … positioning!

Transcript

Mark Vandegrift 
Welcome to another episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift, and with me today is our Sydney Sweeney of Strategy, Lorraine Kessler.

Lorraine Kessler
My gosh, wow. I don't think that...

Mark Vandegrift 
Lorraine, did you have images go through your head just then?

Lorraine Kessler
I always thought that if I had, I can't say this.

Mark Vandegrift 
Yeah, you can! 

Lorraine Kessler
I always thought if I had a body like that, I'd be killer. I'd be lethal for at least one day.

Mark Vandegrift 
You have the brains and the body, right?

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, it's just too much, right? God giveth and God taketh away. 

Mark Vandegrift 
Well, obviously we don't need any brand news intro today. That is our topic, Sydney Sweeney. And I think we touched on it a couple of weeks here when it first hit our advertising consciousness. But now that the dust has settled a little bit on the American Eagle campaign that she was in, I thought we'd discuss a little bit what made it go viral, why it was a hit or a non-hit, depending on your point of view and why literally every major news outlet, influencer, politician felt the need to address it. And I want to even take it one step further because I want to suggest that we might have had yet another paradigm shift in our culture, but that's up for debate. Are you ready to give me your thoughts on all of this? 

Lorraine Kessler
Sure

Mark Vandegrift
Okay, well, first off, I always have to note our positioning wall here behind me. A recent new prospect, we were on the call and they said, you're blocking like the most important thing. And I said, well, that's positioning. said, I want you to have to work to figure out what that says behind me. And so that was kind of funny. But since we're all about positioning, what does American Eagle stand for in your mind or, you know, overall and how do you perceive that they differentiate their brand?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, that's an interesting question because it's been many, many years for me shopping at American Eagle. And that was the store to shop when my kids were kind of in middle school through junior high and high school. Kind of in high school, it wasn't the coolest place to go. Then it went to Abercrombie, right? So, but as a, so my perception, which you're not a customer, right? Are you today? Okay.

Mark Vandegrift 
No, my daughters both are. My daughter worked there, actually.

Lorraine Kessler
Okay, well my perception, okay, well then she might have a better bead, my, and again, positioning is not what the marketer says has happened. It's what is in the mind of the prospect. And as a former customer, and I'd be interested to see what some of our viewers think, to me, they represent kind of Americana, comfortable, casual clothing for kind of that middle school, high school student. They weren't overly sexy. They weren't luxury. They were accessible and kind of, I think, real. Just very real, very authentic, comfortable. So that was, and in today's fake hyperbolic world, I think that's becoming more unique. So.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, yeah, it really is. It's interesting because, you know, not being a customer of American Eagle for obvious reasons. I did Google it and it said it was the casual jeans for high school and college age females ages 15 to 25. So I mean, your perception is lining up with At least what Gemini is saying, right? Because everything's AI today, so we've to ask the AI gods what they think. So anyhow, well, the more important thing is based on that differentiation, do you think they pulled it off? Did the campaign do anything to further differentiate American Eagle from competitive brands? Or was this an instance of making famous as you always so eloquently state?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I think it's both. I mean, I  think branding is about perception. So I think we all know that. And positioning is about owning the right perception for your brand relative to competition in the mind. Right? So how do I impress in your mind? And impress is a good word because it's all about impression. So I think they made a very good impression with the Sweeney ad. I think it was very smart to partner with her. I think that one of the things the brand has lacked, at least for me, and perhaps its audience, it's lacked panache for a very long time. So partnering with Sweeney gives it sex appeal again. And I think that's extremely important because now we can take this brand that kind of slipped into ho-hum, all right, and make it hip. It's almost like saying the song from Back to the Future, it's hip to be square and Sweeney's anything but square, but it's a good adaptation of the brand moving it forward for a new generation. So I think it was a good move.

Mark Vandegrift 
Well, speak to that creative dramatization. I know you're not the target audience, but do you think the creative, if you were in charge as the creative director or the account supervisor, did it resonate with you from the standpoint of comfortable jeans for this younger demographic? And it was built entirely on what became, I guess when I saw it, I didn't see the controversy around jeans and genes, the play on words of J-E-A-N-S versus G-E-N-E-S. And that's just my, I don't know, I'm a little naive in the world as you know. 

Lorraine Kessler
Right. Well, you don't see negative space either, Mark.

Mark Vandegrift 
Yeah, I don't see negative space, right? So maybe that was me. I didn't jump into the politics of it. And maybe that's because I'm like tired of seeing political ads, but do you think that that, if you had seen that in the draft form, you were the account supervisor, would you have said, yeah, let's run with it. It's doing what we want it to do to effectively communicate the position.

Lorraine Kessler
I would have no problem with it and even if I suspected, which I didn't, that there's going to be this huge controversy with genes, as in your genetic genes versus jeans that you put on, I would have actually said go with it because the last thing you want to be is boring in your advertising. So if that's going to create some sort of interest, how long is that going to last? How damaging is it going to be? I think the joke is on the people who made a big deal out of that, personally. I mean, it's just like, my gosh. It's just crazy. I remember once being in the Bible study with a bunch of pastors and the female pastors made a big deal out of the fact that Jesus asked in this one translation for the female cult. And they made that a huge like...put down with females. I couldn't figure that out because what if they said, send me the white colt? Right? It's white. I mean, that's a description. And people in those days knew the difference between female and male animals. So a different husbandry. So my point is, I think it's in what's in your mind that sometimes becomes controversial versus what was intended. So I think it was a great joke. I love a pun. It was a play on word. was a punch line that got my attention. And what did it deliver? It delivered, think, American Eagle wanted that were cool again. So it's a pretty substantial win for the brand. And like you, I don't put everything I see or hear in the culture war, political war. Now that said, I really don't think it helped that Trump and Vance commented on it, like I just wish they would shut up, you know? Right? They didn't, that wasn't needed. That only put it back into kind of an area that it didn't need to be, but you know, that's for me.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Yeah, well, it's funny because I think what the people that railed against it did was fan the flames of its exposure. Like I wouldn't have sought it out to even look at it. I don't even know if I saw it pre-controversy. I think I ended up looking it up and watching it more times than I would have just to go. I'm not getting what the controversy is. Again, I'm somewhat naive in those areas, but to me, was, like you said, a good pun. We were talking before we went on air about, I think, an ad you saw during the OSU Texas game, the ring one for Oura.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, yeah. The ring company, O-U-R-A, which I've never heard of before. Maybe Lindsey has and some of our other viewers. But after showing people doing various things like playing the piano and dancing and playing chess and playing basketball, they would close it and they would show, and you almost didn't pick it up, but a ring on someone's finger. And then, the ad payoff was just brilliant. If life is what you're after, give us the finger. And it was like, oh my gosh, you know, what could be, yeah

Mark Vandegrift 
This finger, this finger right here.

Lorraine Kessler
yeah, yeah. Or sometimes they had it, I think, on other fingers, but I love it because it was such a play, was such a pun. It certainly got your attention. And even as you were involved, we talked about the importance of having someone discover something along the way. And you really don't discover they're talking about the rings on people's fingers when they're doing all these things. It's almost like it was a pharmaceutical ad, Because it's like people doing things they enjoy of all different ages, not all young, some old. And then I just loved it. If life is what you're after, give us the finger is doing it similarly.

Mark Vandegrift 
Yeah, and you know, it's funny because you always go, that pun is so obvious. Why didn't anybody ever think of that before? you know, the genes, jeans thing, it played off so well. you know, sometimes those come across as a little bit, you know, BS kind of oriented. But in the research that Lindsey did for this particular episode, she ran across a comment that said that this passed Gen Z's BS rating. And the reason cited was that Sweeney had commented on and engaged with the brand well before this campaign ever launched. Do you think that's instructional to brands who want to use a celebrity endorsement or today what they call influencer?

Lorraine Kessler
Oh absolutely. think it's always been that way. I think, you know, the old adages, know, Tiger Woods and Buick that he promoted when he was at his peak is ridiculous. Everybody knows Tiger Woods is not going to be driving the Buick, an old man's car, old man's Cadillac. So, yes, 100 percent. I think the more authentic the connection or the testimonial to a product from the individual the more the better, right? Authenticity is the new black. And I really feel like some brands have forgotten that. And I think that's extremely important to weigh in. And it comes under when we do our positions for clients. We have the four C's, right? How does it fit with you as a company? And that would be number one. How does this person, this spokesperson fit with us as a company in terms of what we're selling, what we use, their use of it, their relationship, our values. I think that's an extremely important question to ask when you're reaching out to kind of glam on to some sort of selection.

Mark Vandegrift 
Did it pass your BS rating?

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, I mean, I don't really know who she is that much. I mean, I had to kind of do a little more deep. I've seen her in things and I just, I didn't realize how important she is to Gen Z's, but that's the target. It's not me. So yeah, it definitely did. And I think that you can see her wearing these clothes. You can see that she fits kind of this in a more, as I said, an adaptive image that they're trying to create for being a little more sexy rather than just kind of comfortable jeans. They're actually jeans that you can put on and feel like you're part of a trend or something like that. So yeah, I think it's great.

Mark Vandegrift 
Let's dive into the virality of the campaign. I mentioned, I think, you know, one side that railed against it actually flamed those, that virality and, both, I don't know, let's call it the woke and anti-woke the right left, whatever. Everybody got involved, even the, as you mentioned, the president and vice president, but they noted that it broke woke and that we're finally free from the constraints of wokeness, which we'll talk about in a second. That was the paradigm shift that I mentioned earlier. with that, with the long perspective that we have now, how do you feel this particular campaign was different from, let's say, what happened with Bud Light or Target or one of the others that we covered last season? Because it seemed like last season, every other episode was some new brand doing something stupid to tick off their core customer while going after some kind of woke customer. How is this different from those, do you think?

Lorraine Kessler
I think it's distinctly different and it's different this way. Sweeney, she likes these clothes. We know that, right? She's worn them before. She looks good in them. She participated in the development of the commercial, which I think was very smart. And I believe she's a pretty relatable person. So when you think of these foods, these foods, these clothes, they're relatable, they're approachable that's kind of the brand. And so people look at that and think, you know, she looks great in these jeans, I'll look good in them too. So there's this closeness again, where these others brands, just like Bud Light, Target, they were pandering, pandering to a community, so there's no authentic brand meaning. It's not who their customer is about. It's not something that is most important to the people who drink those, drink that product or shop that store. So the inauthenticity of it is really a problem. And also at the same time, it is an insult to the audience. It insults their customers. It doesn't woo their customer, seduce their customer, intrigue their customer in a positive way. It actually insults them unnecessarily. So I think the pandering, the inauthenticity, what's the word?

Mark Vandegrift 
Inauthentic.

Lorraine Kessler
Inauthentic, thank you. The inauthentic nature of it and trying to grab into politics in a way that's more about what the CMOs or CEOs want their audience to be about is just total disrespect for the customer as being number one. And I don't think that in any way, shape or form, American Eagle stepped into that and all. So the hyperbolic about this, eugenics and all that is just over the top.

Mark Vandegrift
Hmm. Well, you know, looking at it from a paradigm shift, and as we commented, president, vice president said they broke woke. I think maybe what happened were back to maybe a more reasoned culture. Who knows? Maybe the fact that there was this outcry shows we're still not reasoned. But the pendulum never swings back all the way. It's not like you have that perfect pendulum. It usually goes back like this. I forget the analogy, but a rubber band never returns to its original form. And I think in this case, we're probably swung back a little bit, probably not all the way. Do you think this marks a cultural shift or is this just another hot topic and not really anything significant culturally?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I don't think woke is dead. I think it's like the walking dead from the TV show. I think it's on a zombie life and I think we're going to see more of it. I'm not sure this ad in terms of its exposure is big enough to break the back of woke forever. I think we're going to see still wokeism in certain ads and for some brands, you know, they've always been woke before the word existed, you know, like Tom and Jerry's, right? And so if you don't like Tom and Jerry's politics, it's been part of their marketing and their culture from the get-go, then don't buy that ice cream. There are plenty other great ice creams. So I would say, you know, swear yourself off of it. But I just..

Mark Vandegrift 
Yeah, and you're talking Ben and Jerry's, not Tom and Jerry's. Going back to the cartoon Tom and Jerry's.

Lorraine Kessler
Oh my God, it's been a long weekend. Sorry guys. That's funny. You got to keep that in because it's good to be.

Mark Vandegrift 
Hahaha. Yeah, that's right.

Lorraine Kessler
It's good. That was my pun. No, But Ben and Jerry's, yes. So I don't think it's dead. I think we're going to see it resurrected and coming out again. And I think what may happen is all of the shock and all of the conversation on it may die down. So if there is a planned effect of PR on this topic is controversial, which can put a spotlight on a brand, and maybe they want that kind of spotlight. I think that's going to diminish.

Mark Vandegrift 
What's your guesstimate, Lorraine, on the long-term effect of this campaign, since it supposedly captured a new generation, the Gen Zs? Do you think they can assume mission accomplished?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, you can't in one ad, right? you know, you can't be episodic. Branding is a long game. It takes time and money. I think what they should do is capitalize on it and pour it on, as Jack Trout says. It's now time to pour it on. How else can we use Ms. Swinney? How else can we nurture this idea that we're, you know, it's hip to be square? I mean, that's kind of where I feel like this brand is. Like with all the sensation around clothing and how some of these Hollywood types dress. It's just kind of cool to be laid back, to be casual, to be comfortable, and to be a real person in the real world and feel good about that. So I would just pour it on, and I think that they have every reason to do that and not, you know, walk away. The worst thing you can do is think one ad is going to create the perception long lasting in the mind that you want to accomplish.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, I think we talked about that several episodes ago that it seems like looking back at the Super Bowl ads this year, how many ads have you seen that have continued where you see the same ones? I know Bud Light is continuing the one with, think it's one of the Kelce Brothers and maybe Post Malone or something. I've seen that same one over and over again, but I haven't seen any one celebrity ad that has continued in different ads. One that I don't think was a Super Bowl ad, but they're doing a good job is Jennifer Aniston with the popcorn. Yeah, skinny pop. And I think I've seen at least two that they've done that wasn't Super Bowl, but at least they're continuing using her. And I would say they should do the same thing here with Sydney Sweeney so that we don't just have that one ad, but, know, hey, she's sticking to it. sales are up, so why wouldn't you take that money that you've increased and keep going with it? Because certainly whatever they paid her was worth it.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, and you know, I think there was some huge bump in their stock and I'm less impressed by that than by the same store sales that you reported on because at the end of the day, it has to do with sales. If advertising doesn't affect that, the top line growth of a company by bringing in new customers and store sales then we could talk all day long about what we think is a great ad or a bad ad. To me, it's a failure. So the whole purpose of advertising is to produce sales, new customers for those who are marketing. I think so this is a winner and just, know, success breeds success. So follow it.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Good. Well, I like celebrating good advertising. I think they did a good job, regardless of what side of the political aisle you might be on. And let's close out this episode. I want to thank Lorraine for joining us today, as usual, and for our listeners joining the Brand Shorthand podcast. If you haven't liked, subscribed, shared, told your best friend, subscribed and subscribed, please do. And until next time, have an amazing day.