Ways to Differentiate: Preference + Influencer Marketing

Corporate speak runs amok today as Mark and Lorraine try to figure out what Calvin Klein's CMO is saying. Marketing 101, Public Relations 101, and other basic positioning principles rarely change and continue to be used by even the big brands. Once their frustrations are vented, the positioning gurus spend time explaining Preference as a way to differentiate. How does influencer marketing -- aka celebrity endorsement -- play with Preference? Spend 30-ish with Mark and Lorraine to find out, and learn more about advertising, marketing, and positioning.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:10 Calvin Klein's CMO Corporate-Speak
• 14:42 Preference as a Way to Differentiate
• 21:32 Influencer Marketing
• 30:54 Outro

Transcript

Mark Vandegrift:
Welcome to the latest episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift, and with me is everyone's preferred positionist, Lorraine Kessler. Lorraine, where are you dialing in from today?

Lorraine Kessler:
I am still up here in northwest Michigan, the lower part of what they call the lower-upper. If that makes sense.

Mark Vandegrift:
Yes, the lower upper. I had a UP roommate my first year in college and he didn't even want to be associated with the lower.

Lorraine Kessler:
Oh, well, that's a very different environment up there. And the people up there have a very distinctive accent, you know, very unique.

Mark Vandegrift:
Somewhat Canadian I think.

Lorraine Kessler:
Very Canadian, you know, you get a lot of the you betcha kind of stuff.

Mark Vandegrift:
Well, hey, let's get going today because we’ve got a lot to cover. I sent you an article published this past Sunday about Calvin Klein and its CMO who just ended his first year with the company.

The article is titled, A Year Into the Job, How is Calvin Klein's CMO Keeping the Brand Fresh? And our listeners, if they want to find this, it's on thedrum.com. I found it interesting that they have four, they call them tent poles, and it's how the CMO plans to energize the Calvin Klein brand. Let me read these to you, because I have a commentary after I read them to you.

And I am laughing because it just is corporate speak, but here we go. The four tent poles are, number one, to create entertaining campaigns. Number two, to drive engagement, which he explains as elevating the shopper experience. Number three, to use a precise targeting strategy aimed at directing customers to a purchase. And finally, number four, to use a CRM engine to personalize messaging to their customers. 

Lorraine, I don't know, after you read it, I'm like, this is marketing 101. I'll sum it up. Here's how I sum it up. Number one, create good advertising. Number two, create a good shopper experience. And number three, leverage your customer data. I was expecting some sort of amazing insight on how a big brand markets. But at the end of the day, what we do here for our clients is what all the big guys do. And many times they don't get it right. They just happen to have these big budgets that... I think sometimes bail them out of bad decisions. The article spends a little bit of time on using influencers, which is the connection to our topic today, which is going to be ways to differentiate around preference.

But before we get there, I know the listeners want to hear your take on this article.

Lorraine Kessler:
First of all, you lost me at tentpoles. Okay. I was like, tentpoles?!? Okay. I get it. There's a tent and we have poles. All right. Um, you know, I have to laugh with you. There is an unattractive habit in many industries. Ours, probably one of the most notorious for this inside baseball kind of highfalutin word speak, right? that impresses others inside the tent, but really has very little to do with the customers, marketers and advertisers are trying to influence. It's not the way people speak, it's not the way they think. 

So, you know, I remember when I was directing client service and we had to, of course our people had to be good communicators written and orally. I would always encourage them right to express, not to impress. So in other words, you know, it's kind of the Mark Twain, unpack the backpack, find the simple word, you know, don't try to show off that you have this enormous vocabulary, but get your point across to as many people as possible. And that seems to be kind of old logic that falls by the wayside. And in our industry, as I said, I think it's one of the most notorious, but I really like what you did. Because for the listeners, you brought it down from the mountaintop.

And all of these things create good advertising versus bad advertising. Create a great shopper experience versus a bad shopper experience. Use data, as if you wouldn't use data to get closer to the customer. Like you're putting it in plain speak. And to me, this has nothing to do with the how they're going to refresh the brand. This is tactically kind of what they want to do, but it doesn't tell me strategically what they're going to do to refresh in the brand, which is a very challenging marketing, well, it's a very difficult marketing challenge. One of the hardest, I think, is to refresh in a brand that's either gone stale or its time has passed by. It's almost like a dying star. And it's going to take a lot more tactics to do that.

Mark Vandegrift:
Well, it even gets worse … if that weren't bad enough. Near the bottom of the article was another quote. And this guy says, "'Elsewhere, Calvin Klein has been focused "'on rebuilding its institutional influence. "'This,' Bottomley explains, "'means working with the bigger, credible publishers "'and getting editorial influencing.' But then says, not paying for it, but building those relationships, spending time with the editors, working with them on bespoke initiatives, helping them understand the product, but also the intent behind the campaigns. I laugh. Lorraine … tell me this isn't public relations 101?!?

Lorraine Kessler:
It absolutely is. And institutional influence, wow. Wow, that's, and here's the thing, it's not even accurate, because a lot of PR goes beyond the professional media sources or publications, you know, the editors and what we call media relations, right? Establishing good relations with the media influencers. A lot of PR goes beyond that to really get your word out and have other people wick your brand by talking about it, word of mouth, recommending it, referring it. So it's not even quite complete. And you and I know that third party endorsements come, do something that advertising alone cannot do or doesn't do as well. And that is it creates trust or credibility for a brand because it comes from that third party. It comes from someone else. And we tend to look to others, and that's what we're going to talk about a little today with this differentiation idea of preference, we do look to others to tell us what's correct. We're very insecure. We tend to follow the herd and all of that. So PR is one of the best ways to build a brand. And when I'm trying to build, when I'm thinking about building a brand with a client, and particularly if it's a new category, but even just a new brand in an existing category, We really try to think what's newsworthy about this product or service? What would captivate that audience, the media audience, the editors, the publishers, to really want to frame a story around our story? So there's a little bit of strategic thought too, right? I mean, news people, I think, have great sniffers. So they avoid things that you think is news, that they know is not. They're always thinking about their audience and is this really newsworthy to the audience I'm trying to reach. And they really are very good at sorting out kind of the hype and the corporate BS, if I might say, from what really their audience is going to care about.

Mark Vandegrift:
Yeah, Marketing 101, PR 101 … for all we think has changed in marketing over the last couple of decades with new forms of digital marketing, these big brands are just using the same marketing strategies that we've used for 100 years. Well, not you and I personally, but what the industry has used for 100 years. And we've always said that PR is the best way to build a brand and it's also a great way to maintain category dominance.

At the end of the day, I think they're just pushing a huge stone up a very, very high mountain. Not once in the article did I see anything about what makes Calvin Klein different. Now, Calvin Klein's been around since I was a kid, and so certainly they've been part of the culture. But the closest thing that he came to explaining their difference was this quote here. Bottomly explains the shared vision of the new vision of the leadership team as wanting to make Calvin Klein, “one of the most aspirational brands in the world.” He says it's a brand that has always stood for strong values, strong identity, but has also had a really compelling image and been one of the pioneers of bringing culture and brands together. I didn't know clothing had that kind of power, but I don't know. I couldn't put my finger on anything that made me think, oh, Calvin Klein is different in this way. Did you see anything or can you even think of anything? I mean, you're probably more connected to clothing than I am. I can't consider myself a connoisseur of that particular category of brands, but Lorraine, what's your thought on that?

Lorraine Kessler:
Well, beyond the name, the only thing I know of Calvin Klein is from the movie Back to the Future, if you remember.

Mark Vandegrift:
Yes.

Lorraine Kessler:
So I think underwear, right? Men's underwear. And his name was Calvin Klein. And if that's what our CMO means by bringing brands and culture together, well, that was a long time ago. What was that? Almost 40 years ago?

Mark Vandegrift:
80s.

Lorraine Kessler:
40 years ago. So, I mean, this just, again, to me, this whole thing illustrates how marketers and advertisers overestimate how much thought people give to brands. Really, they don't. People are too busy, they're too time-taxed, they're too preoccupied, often they're just too lazy to think deeply about your brand. So they buy based on a gut impression. You know, the simpler the idea, the better. And how it relates to them. It's the old, what's in it for me syndrome. Does it fit my desire, my aspiration, my goals, my image of myself, how I wanna be perceived by others. I don't think, I think it's been proven that people live in a world where... They really don't care about brands that are trying to save the planet, that are trying to do these high, that's really nice for Calvin Klein. I don't know how it's going to sell their apparel line. I don't know how bringing culture and brands together is going to sell product. 

If I were the CEO of this company, I would be somewhat alarmed by some of this speak, because I don't see how it ties to any kind of monetized value for the brand. I haven't heard a strategy yet. I haven't heard Calvin Klein, we think stands for this. And the people who really appreciate or care a lot about X would care. I didn't hear any of that. What I hear are a lot of high-minded, save the world, our vision, our mission, a lot of talk about Calvin Klein, the company and not the customer they're trying to influence. And I think that's a serious error. 

And to bring it to home, I mean, just... you're president of an agency, imagine if you had a candidate come in and your question is, how are you going to add value to our firm? Right? And they start talking about all their high-minded aspirations that have nothing to do with the job at hand or how they're going to help the firm. You would immediately tune out. And I think this is just, this CMO is not unique in what he's saying, how he's saying it. Unfortunately, I think it's somewhat epidemic.

And I think it reflects a certain elitism in the educational system and the track that these people have taken to get to these CMO level jobs. They are so disconnected from their customer audience that they really, as I said, you came down from the mountain. They really can't come down from the mountain to walk among the mortals who end up buying your product.

Mark Vandegrift:
Well, that's one of the things I appreciate about being with a midsize agency. I know we're in the top 10% of agencies, but we're a small business when it comes down to it and we work with a lot of small businesses. To me, that's the grounded, salt of the earth people that at the end of the day, they know they have a widget, they got to sell a widget or they won't be in business anymore. Marketing is a big key in that. To me, that's just... just talk like you're a normal person and not some kind of… you use the word elitist.

Lorraine Kessler:
Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift:
That's what it feels like. So, well, like so many other brands we discussed, we'll see how that plays out. 

In the meantime, let's get to our topic of the day. This continues our series on ways to differentiate. And today we're going to cover preference. So I'll put that description up on the screen and let me read our dictionary definition and then we'll let you wax eloquently on it. So ways to differentiate preference, the rules of play are people don't buy what they want, they buy what they think they should have. We determine what is correct by finding out what other people think is correct. People are sort of like sheep following the herd. We look for social proof and affirmation. Supplying what other people think is correct is what using preference is all about. Then Lorraine, we give a few examples of that, but one that always comes to mind is Trident Gum's campaign in the 1970s. You might recall it, four out of five dentists surveyed, recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum. That four out of five dentists statement was then also eventually used by Colgate. And both companies got in a little bit of trouble because they couldn't really stake that claim with research, but it didn't keep them from using it for a very long time.

So Lorraine, give us your take on this way to differentiate.

Lorraine Kessler:
Well, let's just first establish that legitimacy and supporting your claim with research is necessary when you're doing preference. Preference is akin somewhat to leadership, because it creates this confidence, right? It creates the idea that someone I trust more than myself, usually an expert, has endorsed a product. Therefore, I can feel comfortable buying that. So it's particularly useful in categories where proof of performance is required. We know Tylenol Hospital preferred. That's a really good example. We did some work where we said Pilot-preferred. That's an expert. And so it works very well often in business to business, but in technology spaces, too, or where the selling message is somewhat complex. 

Now, some brands get indirect endorsement simply by their fan base, right? For example, Apple has an enormous following. And so we see Apple devices everywhere. And we see the, you know, we see the, I have a cover of mine, so that doesn't work, but this is an Apple phone. And so even indirectly preference kind of comes to us, even if it's not stated. So, you know, that idea of establishing trust is extremely important because, as you said, and people are insecure. We think we really have it licked, but we don't. We're more insecure than we know and tend to need that confidence bill.

Mark Vandegrift:
Yeah, and like we've done with the other ways to differentiate, I think providing some examples of companies that have done that. You mentioned Tylenol, and your reference around Pilot Preferred was Goodyear Aviation tires.

We know that. We already mentioned Trident and Colgate, but we have some younger listeners, so some of those might not be current brands that they would think of. This next one I'm going to give you is kind of funny because... Tell me how you're going to research this one. Whiskas, preferred by eight out of 10 cats. So I guess if you do a food test and they show up, that might be, you know, they pick between the two. We did that with Bil-Jac many years ago, where we said, you know, here's the taste test challenge, kind of taking off of Pepsi. And it was 100% preference versus what was on the market that day but Whiskas, preferred eight out of 10 cats. Here's another one, Harris Tweed, worn by the Royals. So that's a little different kind of a preference. Oral-B, the number one brand preferred by dentists, going back to the dentist side of things. And then Hill's Science Diet Pet Food, veterinarian recommended. Back in the day, Lorraine, there was another one. Do you remember who it was that said, more doctors smoke, [and then there's a brand – this type of cigarette], more than any other cigarette. Do you know which one that was?

Lorraine Kessler:
I have no idea.

Mark Vandegrift:
It was Camel. It was the line, and I'll show the ad on the screen here: more doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette. So preference can be powerful, but it can also take us down the wrong track, can't it?

Lorraine Kessler:
It can also kill you, right? Is that what you're saying? More doctors died from smoking Camels than any other cigarette. That was the update!

Mark Vandegrift:
Well, those are some good examples of people using, of brands using preference. You have any other ones that come to mind? You brought up Tylenol before.

Lorraine Kessler:
No, I think you covered it really well. And I think Hill's Science Diet is an excellent one because I think it works very well and they've established a nice franchise for that brand based on the veterinarian recommendation.

Mark Vandegrift:
Yeah, with the amount of pet product advertising that we see today, it almost feels like the toothpaste aisle. How is that next brand going to differentiate because everything seems to be completely, it's got to be organic. I'm expecting the next brand to come out and just say, we serve table food to our dogs and cats because they're all trying to one up each other: Blue and farmers dog… what's it called? The Farmer's Dog and all of those. Like how much more fresh and actual food can you get in there and not have any preservatives or anything, but it's neat to watch that unfold because you do need to differentiate and Hills hasn't changed from theirs for a real long time. You go to their website and they still say veterinarian recommended. Whiskas it still says is preferred by 8 out of 10 cats. So you have preference this way. But let's shift a little bit because you already started hinting at it and that was around fan clubs.

Today, I think this way to differentiate has probably taken on the life of what we call the influencer.

And we mentioned the Calvin Klein brand and they did spend a little bit of time talking about brand ambassadors at the top of this episode. And it seems as though that's an approach so many brands are taking these days, even if they have another differentiating idea, because why not get people on board who are influencers and saying, go use this? To your point, we need affirmation of what we buy or things that we should buy. Think about apparel brands like Nike or Adidas. They're probably the most frequent use of preference. Tell me kids don't wear the brands their sports heroes wear. Nike stands for the ultimate performance apparel, which is a leadership position, but they didn't get there without Michael Jordan and many other great athletes wearing their gear. And to me, this was the start of influencer marketing in a big brand sort of way. But today, influencers can be anybody who has a decent following on social media. Lorraine, let's go through this and give us your perspective on influencer marketing as it relates to preference.

Lorraine Kessler:
Well, influencer marketing is very much, it's a new version of celebrity endorsement, right? I mean, back in the day, you would pay a celebrity to endorse your brand. And to the extent that celebrity had a connection to the product or service that made sense, that wasn't just kind of put together for non-strategic reasons. 

By that, I mean, if you're selling cooking pans, you're going to use Emeril Lagasse, right? You're going to use a chef who has a name. And what you're doing is you're writing the coattails of their fan base. Like the influencer, just like the celebrity in the old days, has to already have kind of a ready-made teed-up audience that you think would care a lot about your product or service and have interest in it. 

And then the influencer adds the extra octane to that message because they then provide the trust that we say comes from having preference, right? So if XYZ influencer who I like a lot, enjoy a lot, knows a lot about fabric, for example, when sewing, is endorsing a particular sewing machine or fabric or whatever it is, and showing me how it's used, I'm going to really respond in a very positive way. 

So they need an audience and they have to have some relevant connection. It is still somewhat tactical. Now what's happening in the influencer market? Well, I think it's extremely effective today. And we know why, because there's so many multiple social channels which are very organic in how they work, right? They're selling but they're selling in a less overt way. And there's kind of a relationship with that influencer. And so it comes to you just as if a friend was recommending something to you. So it has a very different feel, but what is happening is more and more of these influencers are just for sale, right? And they're taking dollars and money in exchange for promoting your brand. And the less authentic that connection is or their real commitment, I think that can hurt a brand. So I think marketers have to be very careful about who they choose and why they choose and that they truly, that the influencer truly is excited. And it's kind of like they're the first sale that they really want to get behind the product because they believe in it as well, not just doing it because they're, you know, making a buck. 

Mark Vandegrift:
You bring up a good point and it's probably worth diving into a little bit. There is a subtle difference between preference as a way to differentiate, and using a celebrity or influencer, and what is that? Well, if I have four out of five dentists, or I'm veterinarian recommended, or 8 out of 10 cats, I don't have to worry about that group that is my endorser preference of going rogue, having some kind of scandal or anything else that then brings the brand down with it. If you have a celebrity, we've seen in the past, that celebrity does one thing and the brands just run. They're like, oh, cancel the contract. And really, influencers can do the same thing. We've seen influencers go down because it turns out that they're not authentic or whatever. So there is a dividing line there. And I think we have to be careful about thinking that preference automatically means, oh, I go get one influencer and I'm good. And so I'm differentiating.

Preference, I think, as a way to differentiate means that you have a group that's big enough that you can cite, and you're not just saying, oh, well, my toothpick here is used by so-and-so, and so everyone should use my tooth.

Lorraine Kessler:
Right, right, yeah, you have the advantage of numbers on your side with preference, because it's a body of people who are expert or you have confidence in endorsing a product. And so that is very different than an individual or individuals because, and like you said, the risks are the same as with celebrity in terms of whatever happens to that influencer, depending how well-known they are, can affect your brand. So it's not without risk. I would say it's a tactical way under the umbrella or in the tent of preference.

Mark Vandegrift:
It's a tentpole.

Lorraine Kessler:
Yeah, it’s a tentpole in the preference tent. If you have a product that can be demonstrated. If you have a provable, demonstratable difference, for example, a performance fabric that is resistant to stain, you can show that a Sharpie can be wiped off with just a soft cloth. Or you have shatterproof glass, and you can take a hammer and show that it breaks into, it doesn't break at all, or if it does, it breaks into very safe pieces of glass. That's the best way to sell that product. And influencers, because of the medium they use, which is most often video, are superb to bring on board to market those kinds of things. If you have something you can demonstrate, demonstrate it. Best way to sell.

Mark Vandegrift:
Yeah, it's really a PR. It's very akin to a PR tactic because you're referencing a fabric that we used to advertise and we sent that out to media and said, write on this piece of fabric, wipe it off. You'll see how it works. We talked about progressive foam recently where you could send out a sample of the siding and say, hit it with a bat, pound it with a hammer. It's not going to break because of the siding has an insulation to the back of it. Those are demonstrations that we sent to media. So that is very akin to the influencer marketing, but yet it also falls onto the other side, which is depending on how many influencers you can get in a particular area, that might allow you to claim preference for a certain segment of society, such as veterinarians, dentists, doctors, hospitals, all that type of thing that we've used in the past. So before we close things up, any other comments on this way to differentiate, which is preference? Lorraine?

Lorraine Kessler:
Well, I did get a comment from a former associate, Trista Todd, on my Facebook, because I said, hey, if anybody has any thoughts on preference or influencers, send me your thoughts. And I thought this was pretty insightful. She wrote, It's become more and more clear to me that the 40 and under demographic, and I'm just shy of that, are being influenced daily, right in the palm of their hands. I thought that was a great line. I can't tell you how many cosmetic products I have purchased because someone who I follow on TikTok, because I like their content tells me how good it is. The 40 and under demo has lost word of mouth because let's face it, we're too busy to talk to each other anymore. But we found it through influencer marketing. If executed correctly, Calvin could prolong their life even further. I thought that was well said.

Mark Vandegrift:
Good. Well, thanks Lorraine and thanks to our audience for viewing and listening. Please like, share, comment, and subscribe. Then join us for our next episode of the Brand Shorthand as we discuss the core concepts of positioning. Until then, have an amazing day.